Meat is Meat

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Controversy ahead. As I’ve just said on a friend’s blog post – I don’t eat meat – I try to avoid using any animal products, and without being preachy, I’m against killing any sort of creature for any sort of reason these days. I do cook meat for the meat eaters in my life – freedom of choice has nothing to do with recipes as far as I’m concerned, and not my karma. I don’t hate them for eating it – I ate it for most of my life, so I get it. Bacon is fabulous on a plate of anything. I commented on a supposedly good friend’s remarks a good while ago about hunting critters (not to eat) that were endangered because of some flimsy thing, and was immediately unfriended and severely crapped upon before being blocked, so I’m a bit wary about posting about such a sensitive subject. I never foist my personal beliefs on others in harsh ways, because I believe that we’re all on our own trips, and what is good for us when it is, is. Something has been getting up my nostril lately though – and I really hope that talking about it isn’t going to make any of my friends enemies. Still….

Matthew McConaughey has been coming under a lot of fire since it’s been discovered that he is part owner in the “canned hunting” 22 000 acre ranch run by his brother in Texas. Canned hunting revolts me, and the tiny enclosures of lions and so on so killed is way beyond my comprehension. If I only had the choice to eat meat or die, I’d rather eat his hunted buck any day of the week than some horribly farmed cow. Hunt for meat – alright – you can’t eat lions – leave those guys alone man. 22 000 Acres is not canned hunting by any stretch of the imagination though, and the vicious comments he’s been getting on his various online sites are truly appalling. Those of you who are faint of heart – look away now. De-beaking, throwing baby chicks into grinders for the egg industry, production of fois gras, veal – eating baby animals of any sort, milk, down for feather pillows or comforters – ugh – all of these industries are so, so much worse than hunting. Rearing them, transporting them, killing them – all atrocities in my eyes. Hunting is cleaner I think. Quick and unexpected, and by far the better of two evils in my meat free thinking. I may be wrong. I prefer murdering veggies myself – so just saying.

In my opinion meat is meat, and if you’re going to eat it, why be holier than thou? Eat the meat that requires less terror and pain from the original supplier of said meat. Why the species issues? Why care if it has digits for fingers? Why is killing and abusing some species ok while other species is seen as rotten? Seriously – I’d like to know. As I said earlier – meat is meat – killing is killing. Why munch happily on a sheep and be appalled by eating any other thing? And if you’re going to eat one animal that’s had a crappy life because – well – it’s food – then shush about what anyone else eats. There’s no difference – a cow is a deer is a lion is a monkey.

Heading off to hide under my bed now………

baby-chickens
Image courtesy Public Domain Images

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108 thoughts on “Meat is Meat

    Holly Jahangiri said:
    February 6, 2015 at 7:39 pm

    I agree with all but one thing… why can you eat lion?

    I don’t mind hunting, provided it’s a skillful kill and all the parts are used to fill a need – not just slaughtered and left to rot, or hung up as a gory decoration on a wall. I agree with you that the way we rear and slaughter our meat animals is inhumane and worse than hunting (generally). I’m against sadism and cruelty. Everything eats; everything dies. The lion would eat us, but not waste us.

    Liked by 2 people

      Holly Jahangiri said:
      February 6, 2015 at 7:40 pm

      I meant “why CAN’T you eat lion” of course. It’s meat, yes?

      Liked by 1 person

      jorobinson176 responded:
      February 6, 2015 at 7:46 pm

      I’ve heard it tastes bad. Up in Zimbabwe people ate everything from Hippos to Crocodiles (for their skin by the way, crocodiles are impaled alive with steel rods stuck up from their bums to their skulls – for the leather industry). You’re so right about the lion not wasting us. I’ve always been partial to vultures even though most people think that they’re gross – they don’t kill – just clean up. Could use them in my kitchen sometimes. 🙂

      Like

        Holly Jahangiri said:
        February 7, 2015 at 12:38 am

        Some vultures are aggressive and do kill. We have that sort around here, apparently – Mexican black-headed vultures – my husband got a photo of one on the neighbor’s roof. Not sure I’d want to let a dog out there all afternoon…

        Liked by 1 person

          jorobinson176 responded:
          February 7, 2015 at 6:16 am

          Birds of prey. One of my buddies had his Jack Russell puppy taken right in front of him by an eagle. Poor guy was traumatised for ages.

          Like

      Middlemay Farm said:
      February 7, 2015 at 5:27 pm

      While a lion might not waste its kill, I’ve seen owls, foxes and opossums kill bunches of chickens etc and not eat them at all. My cat brings home cute little mice and slowly tortures them before dropping them uneaten on my doorstep. I get a little worried when people make it seem that humans are somehow worse than other species. We’re the only species to form animal rights organizations and make moral decisions about taking a life. We keep pets and treat them with great kindness. No other species does that (as far as I know).

      Liked by 1 person

        jorobinson176 responded:
        February 7, 2015 at 5:39 pm

        There can be no comparison between humans and animals, and nothing that they do can ever justify our behavior. We are the dominant species – we have the ability to think constructively – and we literally rule the world. Animals don’t however treat their kills the way we do. They kill what they are able to catch for food to survive. Domestic dogs and cats are our own creations, and probably in the wild would have less time to play with their prey in that instance. The fact that we are quite happy to keep pets and guard them as we would family, while at the same time are willing to condone the torture of other species makes me get a little worried. Ants are the only other species that farms other animals – they don’t kill them though.

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          Middlemay Farm said:
          February 7, 2015 at 8:49 pm

          Foxes and owls aren’t our creation and they kill just for the brain (in the case of owls) and sometimes in a killing frenzy( in the case of foxes). I found one scared and dying chicken hiding in a hay bale. Her end was a miserable one brought on by a fox who killed and left 12 other dead animals. I can’t get into an owl’s brain to know what it’s thinking.

          “There can be no comparison between humans and animals, and nothing that they do can ever justify our behavior.” Not sure where this rule came from. Either we are a part of our world as just another species with no moral force ruling our behavior or we are apart from the rest of the species as made in the image of a higher moral being. Without a higher moral being we have no reason to debate any of these issues.

          My fear is the hatred of humanity that often comes with these discussions.

          Liked by 1 person

            jorobinson176 responded:
            February 8, 2015 at 2:22 pm

            Your last point first. That’s why I hesitated to post this – the possibility of anything hateful. I’m glad I did though – it’s important for us as human beings to talk about issues like this rather than avoiding them for fear of attack – nicely and without rip roaring fights. Whether we agree or not – these are real and serious problems, and I think that all discussions like this are helpful. Everyone seems to be on the same page here, and mostly we’re all doing our bit to help in any ways we can.

            I didn’t know that about owls – I wonder why they only eat brains? Foxes and the cat family are rotten little sods when it comes to wholesale slaughter just for fun apparently. Why they do this – who knows? Are they doing it with malicious intent – I don’t think so – I don’t think that they have the human ability to recognise wrong from right, and to then choose to act regardless. They’re just following their instincts I think. Just my own opinion here.

            *There can be no comparison between humans and animals, and nothing that they do can ever justify our behaviour.” Firstly there really can be no comparison between humans and animals. It’s not a rule – just logic. With our vastly superior intellect to animals, our physical abilities, opposable thumbs, and the ability to reason and learn, we have taken control of the world, and every little thing on it. We consider ourselves to have morals and be civilised. Animals can’t tick any of these boxes, and using their natural behaviors to justify any of our own makes no sense to me.

            I’m not trying to get into a heated debate over this – just trying to explain my reasoning. The damaged Earth today is the product of human behavior, and only we can make that right – hopefully without fighting. No hatred here at all.

            Like

              philipparees said:
              February 8, 2015 at 3:00 pm

              Just wanted to commend the controversial nature of a post that elicits such responses in both honesty and clarity. A new impulse for posts has tempted me recently and glad to see it validated by this engagement.

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              Middlemay Farm said:
              February 8, 2015 at 4:01 pm

              I agree that humans are a unique species. Some people want to say we are not. I believe we have a moral imperative to care for creation.

              All I was saying is that there are plenty of people who say we’re all just a bundle of cells following instinct. Following that logic there is no moral reason to protect or save anything.

              I’ve known people who believe that whales are intellectually and morally superior–as if they decided to remain in the sea and not build sky scrapers or paint portraits. I think that’s wishful thinking.

              When foxes sense chicken panic they go berserk and kill, kill, kill. Foxes are also adorable so we try chasing them with our dog–who is sitting by the wood stove as I write this :).

              We forget that we are part of the earth. We are not some alien species. If there is a creator he created us as well. If a mosquito has a purpose so do we. The earth has been damaged many times over by natural events. The dinosaurs went extinct without our help (unless we’re wrong about our pre-history).

              Any time in the past 100 or so years that we express full-scale hate against humans it damages humans and animals. The eugenics program in the US, England and Germany of the early 20th century led to mass killing of humans and the wars that followed led to mass killing of all species.

              I fear people who in their zeal to save the planet develop a hatred for humans. Some people thought life would be better without the Jews. Some (not all) environmentalists do hate humans (other humans, not themselves) and that’s scary.

              I don’t take honest debate personally. I know that most of us love creation and want to take care of it. So no hard feelings here. 🙂

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        Holly Jahangiri said:
        February 7, 2015 at 7:13 pm

        While I agree with much of that, at least in principle, do any other species of animal enslave others to work for them, or breed and raise others in horrible conditions only to become food for them? (Before you answer: I am an omnivore. I simply prefer my food not be tortured before I eat it, and my morality cringes more at how we treat animals than whether we eat them or not.) What if we kept human “pets”? Would the fact that we treated them with great kindness make that okay?

        I don’t think humans are better or worse than other species, per se. I think we have the intellect and moral capacity to think about these questions and struggle with what’s right and wrong.

        And perhaps your cat is trying to feed and please you. I had a cat leave delicately crushed, but unpunctured songbirds at my feet (not even MY cat, but he’d definitely adopted me as HIS person). I don’t think he meant to torture the birds, but I do think he thought he was providing for, or pleasing me. It broke my heart to have to teach him otherwise, and he avoided me for three days after the rejection. 😦

        The senseless killing of the chickens baffles me. Had it been roosters, on the other hand – well, there’s one near a place my son and I used to camp, and its internal clock was clearly screwed up, because it invariably crowed at 3:30 AM, by the light of the moon. I have never so badly wanted to make chicken noodle soup in the wee hours of a winter morning as I did when we camped there… I could see owls, foxes, possums, and others wanting to kill creatures that acted like burglar alarms or alarm clocks while they were hunting other game. Maybe that’s what it was – the chickens were easily disturbed, noisy, and scared off their food?

        Liked by 1 person

          Middlemay Farm said:
          February 7, 2015 at 8:58 pm

          I raise my own food (not all of it of course) and pride myself on treating my goats and chickens humanely. I don’t think we can be certain why a cat tortures a mouse before presenting it as a present. The mouse might like a say in this discussion 🙂

          I’m not sure why we hesitate to state the obvious–we are very different from other species. We have the ability to see things morally. But if there is no reason for it other than some quirk of evolution then we are not bound to follow any rules about torture or anything else.

          A very interesting movie about humans making the mistake of putting their emotions on another species is The Grizzly Man. Have you seen it? It’s troubling and fascinating.

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            Holly Jahangiri said:
            February 7, 2015 at 9:04 pm

            Another thing I find troubling is our insistence on holding ourselves apart from nature. We impose weird rules (unfortunately, most of them are necessary) on our interactions with the unspoiled wild. I think that if one is willing to go into the wild with nothing but a tent and the clothes on their back, and do nothing “unnatural” to spoil the place, they ought to be left alone. Too bad most of us can’t be trusted to that degree. We impose these rules on ourselves because not doing so would lead to civilization as an impossibility. We’re smart enough to realize that.

            Liked by 1 person

              Middlemay Farm said:
              February 7, 2015 at 9:14 pm

              It all depends on what you think of as unspoiled. If a herd of buffalo trample a patch of beautiful wildflowers the patch is spoiled. If the same buffaloes relieve themselves too close to a stream, other animals can’t drink from it. Is this a moral question?

              When you harvest wool for clothing you have to keep sheep who then spoil the field you’ve fenced them in. If you harvest a crop to make your tent then you’ve spoiled that crop.

              I think one of the weird ideas is “natural” vs “unnatural.” Who decides what’s natural? Is disease carried by birds a good natural thing if it kills other species? Are we sure we want to throw away “unnatural” cures for disease? Do we want natural teeth or braces? and so it goes… it’s natural for humans to create beautiful paintings and to have too much pride.

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                Holly Jahangiri said:
                February 7, 2015 at 9:21 pm

                No, I’m thinking of precisely that. If we’re willing to camp out in the wilderness and leave LITTLE trace, I’m not sure we should feel obligated to pack out our bodily waste or avoid gentle interaction with wildlife – but the thing is, we’ve removed ourselves so far from what that means that we’d try to tame it and bring it home, or sue it if it bit us. 😉

                Liked by 1 person

                  Middlemay Farm said:
                  February 7, 2015 at 9:42 pm

                  I have a real problem with people who sue zoos when animals bite them. 🙂 Actually I’m not too fond of zoos. Have you read about the man they kept in a zoo? http://middlemaybooks.com/2014/09/29/human-zoo/

                  Your idea of gentle interaction may be different than someone else’s–that’s where the trouble begins. Life is frought with moral dilemmas we haven’t come close to figuring out. Sigh.

                  Like

                    Holly Jahangiri said:
                    February 7, 2015 at 10:06 pm

                    Good God. I’d never heard of such a thing.

                    Oh, did you miss earlier in our discussion where I said that most of the silly rules we’ve set are, unfortunately, necessary for that very reason? That for all our moral capacity, we also have a huge capacity for selfishness and short sightedness, and a real talent for destroying things. My “gentle interaction” would be “if other animals do it, we’re just animals.” If a tame squirrel will come up to you, it’s okay to touch it and share local vegetation if that’s what you’re having for a meal. If you’ve brought peanut butter, don’t feed it to the bears. When in Rome… but no, we insist on changing everything just to suit us humans, so this is why we can’t always have nice things. And no, I would not give up modern medicine or modern agriculture or family farms. I think we should give up wholesale torture and slaughter, though. It isn’t necessary and I’d like to think it’s beneath our dignity. If not, then people should be made to visit the places where their food comes from, so they can’t turn away and not admit they’re part of this ugly part of the food chain, too.

                    Liked by 1 person

                      Middlemay Farm said:
                      February 7, 2015 at 10:20 pm

                      Factory farming and eugenics come from what I consider our fallen nature. I believe in morality, but it makes no sense without God because your definition of how we should behave with squirrels may be different than mine and who’s right? (actually I agree with taking a stand against brutality in all forms, but I think if we say humans are expendable because we change the environment I think we’ve gone too far) Check out Julia Roberts as Mother Nature on youtube. Mother nature seems far more cruel (and hopefully fictional) than the God of the Bible. Please don’t take this as me ramming a religious worldview onto others, but I can’t explain the “need” for morality without it.

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                      Holly Jahangiri said:
                      February 7, 2015 at 11:06 pm

                      As I said, the NEED for morality is a practical one; in order to live in a “civilized” and urban environment, we have to cooperate. We can’t run around killing and eating each other. We can’t run around killing each other’s offspring. (Never mind that we do – in principle, that’s antithetical to being the social creatures we mostly are.)

                      I see nature as more indifferent than cruel. I think that the “God of the Bible” is a description of wishful thinking, mostly – the enemy of my enemies, and my friend if I do what I think He wants me to do. If you look at Abraham and Isaac, or today’s terrorists, that can be horribly twisted by insanity – if your “wishful thinking” is actually to run around blowing people to smithereens, what better way to reconcile that with “morality” than to blame God for “wanting” you to do it?

                      I disagree, then, that we have no “need” for morality without God. Not that I’m atheist, but I do think that if our only reason for morality is “fear of God,” it’s a weak and fragile sense of what’s good and what is “evil.” What’s good? That which damages the least, and allows us to live together without making each other miserable. What’s evil? Deliberately using and abusing others, knowing it’s going to make their lives miserable. There’s a lot that goes on between that, and that’s where most of us dwell.

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Middlemay Farm said:
                      February 8, 2015 at 12:17 am

                      The main thing I get from the Bible is that we’re weak and prideful on our own. My understanding of the Isaac story is that true faith is when you’re willing to put even your most precious idols in God’s hands, but I’m no theology major.

                      “What’s good? That which damages the least.” While I agree with you, it’s just your opinion. Some people would say survival of the fittest is the way to go. How do we decide who’s right?

                      My point is that without moral absolutes it’s impossible for fallen man to love what is good (because we can’t even agree on what is good). This is me pondering…not judging your stance.

                      If someone believes in the God of the bible his healthy fear comes from a sense that the creator of the universe is awesome and good and that we are flawed and often times quite bad.

                      Just saying we should be nice because that’s how we should be to save the planet seems like wishful thinking too.

                      Anyway, we agree on more than we disagree, I think. We both want animals and people to be loved and treated decently.

                      All the best~
                      Adrienne

                      Like

    Sue Vincent said:
    February 6, 2015 at 7:49 pm

    You can come out from under the bed.

    Gentle controversy seems all over the blogosphere today. Which, in my opinion, is a damned good thing. We will change nothing by failing to discuss things.

    I’m an omnivore who is mostly vegetarian though choice. You can’t eat anything much without taking a life… even if it is that of a cabbage… except perhaps fruit which is the taking of the potential for life…

    The whole squeamish thing bugs me. The British screw up their faces at horse yet eat spring lambs…and wouldn’t touch fried grasshopper with a bargepole. Yet to some they are a delicacy. And all nations have their own quirks like that. It’s habit. Not that I fancy grasshopper myself I have to say…

    We are, like it or not, the top predators in a food chain. What bugs me most is the sanitisation of the image of food. All plastic wrapped and clean, with little thought to how it got there and even less education. There was an appalling survey done of food education a while ago: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22730613

    There is..or should be… a responsibility not to waste the lives we take for food. If you have to kill, skin and gut your dinner you are far more likely to eat sparingly of another life… and have more respect for its taking.

    Liked by 3 people

      jorobinson176 responded:
      February 6, 2015 at 8:05 pm

      Peeps out from under bed. 🙂 Years and years ago, I accidentally ate horse. There was a new butcher that everyone was praising from the rooftops for being really cheap. Bit confused about the instruction to boil ribs for four hours before barbequeing but soldiered on, and blech, blech. Being a horse lover didn’t help when I found out. The sanitisation is actually what turned me. Up in Zim there wasn’t much food in general, so huge hindquarters were gold, and having to chop them up myself made me realise what I was doing – that and the delivery of a couple of live sheep. Even now that I don’t eat it myself, I make sure that nothing goes to waste – I boil every bone for stock. or use leftovers one way or another. *A RESPONSIBILITY NOT TO WASTE THE LIVES WE TAKE FOR FOOD* is the coolest sentence ever. The thought of those quarter eaten turkeys tossed in the bin freak out my Christmas every year. Make soup or stock – or something. I don’t see the difference eating any sort of animal – dog – cat – bird. But if we’re going to at least do it cleanly. Thank you Sue. ❤

      Liked by 2 people

        Sue Vincent said:
        February 6, 2015 at 8:12 pm

        I, a poor sheltered English girl, went to live in France. I made a point of never asking what I was eating till I’d decided whether or not I liked it. My employers, wise to English cuisine at that time, delighted in feeding me strange and hitherto untried food.
        “That was the best steak I’ve ever had,” I said to my boss one day as we finished the lunch she had cooked. “That was horse.” Cue roiling stomach… just on principle… but I had enjoyed it.
        I grew up in a household that bred things for table… I will never forget coming home to my mother boiling sheep’s heads for the dogs which she skinned rabbits and plucked pigeons… and my baby brother made the beak of one decapitated bird open and close… a real charnel house. I was vegetarian for ages after that…
        These days households have food waste recycling bins provided. I have a dog instead. There is never any waste here.

        Liked by 2 people

          jorobinson176 responded:
          February 7, 2015 at 6:23 am

          I suppose that the animals we bond with like horses and dogs we tend to humanise – probably why it seems such taboo to eat them. There was a lot of killing on our farm too when I was a teenager – half of it was used for hunting and most times there were dead animals all over the place – a lot of it wasted too. I seriously respect anyone who uses everything they can – dogs are cool for that. My birds are little carnivores too – insect eaters in the wild, but they’ll swipe the meat off anyone’s plate.

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            Sue Vincent said:
            February 7, 2015 at 8:49 am

            Yes…. I remember the last pigeon I ate… old Fred… never touched the stuff since. Mother had wrung his neck…and I felt like a cannibal for weeks.

            Liked by 1 person

              jorobinson176 responded:
              February 7, 2015 at 4:50 pm

              Erk! That sounds seriously scary – if my mom had wrung anythings neck I might very well have headed for the hills. I still have horrible memories of chickens having their heads cut off, although I suppose it was much better for them having lived their little lives digging for worms free range than in battery systems. Poor Fred – my puppy’s called Fred. Never eaten pigeon, although as a teen I was once fed rabbit without knowing what I was eating. Ashamed to say that I quite enjoyed it until I was told.

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                Sue Vincent said:
                February 7, 2015 at 5:02 pm

                Never really cared for rabbit… and it got worse after I was eating the ones I knew personally…

                Liked by 1 person

                  jorobinson176 responded:
                  February 7, 2015 at 5:17 pm

                  Sounds to me like there’s a book in your early eating traumas. 😀 Seriously though – this has obviously affected the way you feel about food. Me. I couldn’t ever eat anything bird – even if there was nothing else – I’d rather starve or chew on my leg a bit. Funny that I remember that rabbit – I had two pet bunnies at the time, but the dish really was full of chillies and I LOVE those, so maybe that was it. Excuses.

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                    Sue Vincent said:
                    February 7, 2015 at 5:48 pm

                    Chillis make everything better 🙂
                    But yes, I think these things do affect the way you consider food. My first job was working ‘backstage’ in pork butcher’s shop after school, washing the offal and unmentionable bits of pig. I was twelve at the time. My mother worked out front too and after half her finger was sliced off on the meat slicer… and sent with the rest of the trimming to make pork pies… I was vegetarian for a good while then too! Even now ( though I wish someone would tell my waistline!) and though I love good food, I eat sparingly as a rule.

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                      jorobinson176 responded:
                      February 7, 2015 at 6:08 pm

                      TWELVE! FINGER SLICED OFF! AAAAAARGH!!! Seriously Sue – have you ever written about it or shared in any way? I’m seeing a female hero squishing the Texas Chainsaw Massacre with her gorgeous photos. Your childhood and meat horrors seems absolutely terrifying. I reckon that as we get older we should cut down on a lot of foods – especially if we’re parked in front of a hot computer most of the time.

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                      Sue Vincent said:
                      February 7, 2015 at 6:42 pm

                      That made me chuckle 🙂 No… I’ve mentioned some of the tales… there is even a poem to Fred on my poems page… but I wonder sometimes why I never ended up vegan 🙂
                      I do eat little these days… and very simply. Being on my own with the dog I seldom botherto do more than graze 🙂

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                      Holly Jahangiri said:
                      February 7, 2015 at 7:21 pm

                      OMG, that’s horrible – and yet, it reminds me of this song: http://youtu.be/15p4j6llp44 LOL Sorry.

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                      Sue Vincent said:
                      February 7, 2015 at 7:23 pm

                      LOL… I hadn’t heard that one 🙂

                      Liked by 1 person

                      Holly Jahangiri said:
                      February 7, 2015 at 8:56 pm

                      So glad I could introduce you to it! (I love The Irish Rovers!)

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                      Sue Vincent said:
                      February 7, 2015 at 9:00 pm

                      The lyrics are most appropriate 😉

                      Liked by 1 person

                  jorobinson176 responded:
                  February 8, 2015 at 2:28 pm

                  *… the ones I knew personally…* 😀 I know this isn’t a funny tale, but seriously Sue, the way you tell it makes me laugh out loud. It would make a fabulous book – I’d buy it for sure!

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                    Sue Vincent said:
                    February 8, 2015 at 3:46 pm

                    I’ll remember that, Jo… I always said a memoirs would be in the offing one day… though possibly after most of the protagonists are no longer in a position to hurl bricks or sue 🙂

                    Like

      roweeee said:
      February 7, 2015 at 12:49 pm

      Sue, I am really with you on trying not to waste food. I am guilty of this myself and as for my kids who are very poor eaters, they are responsible to a very overweight puppy dog who was getting their leftovers until the vet had a chat.
      I am most vigilant when it comes to wasting packaging. My kids use lunchboxes and haven’t used plastic wraps now for 2 years.
      We also have a worm farm for our food scraps. The dogs always follow me out there and are most unimpressed when it goes to the worms…even if they wouldn’t have eaten it themselves.
      xx Rowena

      Liked by 1 person

    writing1o1 said:
    February 6, 2015 at 8:05 pm

    Hi, Jo! Aina here. I agree with you. I am trying my best not to eat meat too (maybe, I’m academically influenced by my anthropology and biology class). Any how, thanks for this very commendable post!

    Liked by 1 person

      jorobinson176 responded:
      February 7, 2015 at 6:33 am

      Thank you Aina! It’s amazing how many people are cutting right down on eating meat for what they know as well as from the health aspect. Once you’ve tasted it, it’s not easy to cut it out, so much respect to you.

      Liked by 1 person

        writing1o1 said:
        February 7, 2015 at 8:11 pm

        That’s true. But I think, there are many of these days who are realizing the taste is not as worth as the repercussions of our consumptions. In the light of this conversation, 51% of the causes of climate is attributed to our meat consumptions.

        Liked by 1 person

          jorobinson176 responded:
          February 8, 2015 at 2:30 pm

          Exactly! Future generations are going to live in some sort of climate hell. I’ve noticed massive differences where I’ve lived too with the weather getting a LOT scarier than it ever used to be.

          Liked by 1 person

    philipparees said:
    February 6, 2015 at 8:18 pm

    Oh good Jo, You are standing up! Since you have started, I’ll follow. I assume you have not been party to the current discussion of halal/kosher versus stunning debate raging in the UK. Stunning often does not fully stun,( granted) slitting throats with blunt knives instead which takes longer to kill but satisfies Islamic and Jewish nicety! But like with the politically correct avoidance of mentioning the dominant nationality of those grooming girls for sex, we cannot consider legislating because forbidding inhumane slaughter is deemed ‘racist’ or anti-Semitic.

    Is there room for animalists? I entirely agree that hunting is much more humane ( though I do not warm to those who get their kicks that way) I would legislate that expert trained slaughterers visited every farm and killed on site,( out of sight) rather then the terrified animal transports followed by more terror in abattoirs. There is no really humane way to kill life, but if the witnessing of what we do spread, many would probably think twice.

    I am glad to find a brave contentious post, particularly today when I am thinking of withdrawing since I am running out of nice noises.

    Liked by 3 people

      jorobinson176 responded:
      February 7, 2015 at 6:41 am

      Never withdraw Philippa! Even if we as scribblers put one tiny gem in one ear we have to stick around. I hate seeing those transport trucks. I’ve lived in farming communities for ages so I’ve seen both the humane and the inhuman treatment of animals. Around here it’s also legal to slaughter for rituals – you’re allowed to keep and kill one animal in suburbia. A lot of people buy meat from animals that have had their throats slit, because apparently having all the blood drain out makes for a better taste. We have the power over everything else, to do whatever we want to them – that’s the problem – everything goes as far as humans are concerned.

      People who get pleasure from killing anything for fun – or kill huge creatures for small horns only – well……

      Like

    Phen Weston said:
    February 6, 2015 at 8:18 pm

    Completely agree 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

    The Story Reading Ape said:
    February 6, 2015 at 8:44 pm

    I was raised to “Only kill something either to eat it or defend yourself from it – NEVER for ‘fun’ or because ‘you can'”
    Having lived and worked in several countries with more differing nationalities than you could shake a stick at, I’ve eaten creatures that flew, swam, walked on four (or more) legs, crawled, slithered, swung from trees and made all kind of sounds except talking (I HOPE).
    Why?
    To stay alive!
    Having said that though I’ve usually eaten more vegetables and fruit than meat.
    Humans domesticated animals and birds to eat or help with the work, unfortunately there are always humans who just like being cruel or are plain greedy or wasteful.
    Perhaps removal of these humans from the gene pool would be a positive step in the right direction, evolution wise…
    Nuff said.

    Liked by 1 person

      jorobinson176 responded:
      February 7, 2015 at 6:47 am

      I like the idea of removing them from the gene pool. 😀 At some point we’re going to have to get tough with those guys who get to do any crappy thing they like because we’re too well mannered. It’s obvious that if nothing ever ate anything else we’d have a problem, so things need to be eaten. The greed makes me sick though – so called delicacies like fois gras are not needed for staying alive, and those people who kick turkeys destined for plates around I would LOVE to get my hands on – they certainly wouldn’t be able to breed afterwards. Crawled and slithered hey? A true omnivore. Mopani worms (bright coloured caterpillars) are quite a delicacy around here. 😀

      Liked by 1 person

        The Story Reading Ape said:
        February 7, 2015 at 9:53 am

        mmmm – stewed, roasted or raw – delicious 😀 😀 😀

        Liked by 1 person

          jorobinson176 responded:
          February 7, 2015 at 4:52 pm

          I’m seriously going to post you a pack. 😀 They’re freeze dried. Ha haaa! 😀 😀 😀

          Liked by 2 people

            The Story Reading Ape said:
            February 7, 2015 at 4:58 pm

            LOLOL I’d get done for importing unapproved foodstuffs Jo (seriously – they’re nuts over here about that sort of thing – Health & Safety stuff) 😀

            Liked by 1 person

              jorobinson176 responded:
              February 7, 2015 at 5:20 pm

              *TSRA Narrowly Escapes Getting Multicoloured Dried Worm Guys in the Post* I’ve been watching that Australian series – Border Patrol, so I won’t send you the worms – just epic pics of bananas maybe. 😀 😀 😀

              Liked by 1 person

    coldhandboyack said:
    February 6, 2015 at 9:03 pm

    You’re a brave lady today. This is a controversial topic. I’m a lifelong hunter, fisherman, and forager. I eat what I take.

    My new peeve is all the fresh fish that gets thrown away at the end of the market day. I live about 500 miles from the nearest ocean and know they aren’t bringing that tuna in raw. People don’t want to buy frozen tuna, so they thaw it and place it in the window. Anything unsold has to be thrown out. What a waste. Keep it frozen and sell it frozen. Use all of it.

    Liked by 3 people

      jorobinson176 responded:
      February 7, 2015 at 6:54 am

      I really like that Craig. I’m very pro-hunting for food and not letting anything go to waste. I prefer buying the meat that I cook from sources like that too – luckily this is a farming and hunting community. Not keen on buying factory farmed animals.

      There’s nothing wrong with frozen food – lobster is actually tougher when boiled alive than when frozen first – people hear a thing and then stubbornly refuse to try anything different. Another thing is minimum sizes for fish catches – fisherman throw out tons of already dead fish because they’re legally too small – serious waste.

      Liked by 1 person

    Ali said:
    February 6, 2015 at 9:12 pm

    The article on TMZ was only put up to incite people. That’s TMZ’s specialty. The deer are not trapped or caged. Thousands of posts from irate carnivores who for some reason think shooting a deer on a 22,000 acre spread is worse than slaughtering cattle. Unbelievable. I am not a vegan though I am an animal lover and don’t eat meat, do eat fish. But my husband and daughter and, most importantly!, my dogs and cats most certainly do. I realize I’m a hypocrite. I accept it and try to do as little harm as I can.

    But the (alleged, because PETA issued a release defending McConaughey who hasn’t owned the ranch since 2011 and if you’re more extreme than PETA, you’re in trouble) self-proclaimed “animal rights activists” who have been posting death threats, etc., succeed in alienating the general public and harm the issue of greater protection for food source animals (which deer are).

    The issue of factory farming is being largely ignored while TMZ gets its knickers in a twist because a movie star’s nephew lets people shoot deer. If I were a deer, I’d know I’m going to end badly (let’s face it, deer are prey animals, always have been – ask any wolf or mountain lion you know). I’d rather be shot than sent to a slaughterhouse or be brought down by predators like feral hogs and coyotes. I live in the suburbs and every week I see at least one dead deer lying by the side of the road and wonder how long it took it to die, if the occupants of the car also died.

    There is one woman in Colorado who started all this, tweeting crazily to every news outlet and animal rights group she could possibly find. But if harm came to McConaughey or his children, I wonder if she couldn’t be charged with incitement to violence. This woman didn’t bother to contact the ranch, find out who owned it, find out if the deer were caged or roaming freely on 22,000 acres. She didn’t bother to check who actually owned the ranch, the last time the website had been updated either. The photo of McConaughey, wife and son up there is years old. They’re holding a new baby who is now 6 years old.

    It’s this raving irresponsibility that harms the progress people are trying to make to eliminating factory farming which is destroying not only the miserable lives of food source animals, but the Earth’s environment.

    It’s time for intelligent, reasonable voices to speak up and yours is appreciated.

    Liked by 3 people

      jorobinson176 responded:
      February 7, 2015 at 7:04 am

      I’m glad (and amazed) that PETA defended him. I was reading the will of the woman in charge of it a while ago, and she’s having her body chopped up and stuffed when she dies, and bits of it sent to various places.

      I totally agree with all you say. Stupid people making a racket about this sort of thing really does harm the serious need to eliminate factory farming. I had a look at a couple of McConaughey’s online sites and the filth and vitriol some people are spewing is just shameful. I saw a couple of posts wishing him and his family dead, or shot and skinned. I definitely support his hunting enterprise over the way most of our meat finds its way to tables. Thank you – excellently said.

      Liked by 1 person

    sondasmcschatter said:
    February 6, 2015 at 9:56 pm

    Reblogged this on sondasmcschatter and commented:
    I’M WITH YOU JO—- I HAVE NOT EATEN MEAT FOR MANY YEARS NOW— BUT WE DON’T HAVE MEAT IN OUR HOME– COOKING IT– MAKES ME ALMOST AS KILL AS IF I TRIED TO EAT IT!!! MY BODY REFUSES TO ALLOW IT!!!!! 🙂 I GREW UP ON A FARM– & THAT MAYBE ONE OF THE REASONS I HAVE GONE MEAT FREE– I HATED EATING THE ANIMALS I KNEW BY NAME!!!!!

    Liked by 1 person

      jorobinson176 responded:
      February 7, 2015 at 7:07 am

      THANK YOU SONDA! IT WAS THE SAME ON OUR FARM. I COULD NEVER GET USED TO EATING ANYTHING THAT I’D SEEN ALIVE. CHICKENS ESPECIALLY – SUCH CLEVER LITTLE GUYS, AND SO SWEET – AND THE ONES WHO SUFFER THE MOST. ❤

      Liked by 1 person

    John W. Howell said:
    February 6, 2015 at 10:30 pm

    Nice position Jo. I don’t hunt and simply don’t understand the desire to kill just for the sake of killing. I would never deny a person the right to kill for food but do challenge the trophy hunter justification.

    Liked by 1 person

      jorobinson176 responded:
      February 7, 2015 at 7:10 am

      You’re right John. Trophy hunting is just barbaric in every way. All of it – even though the guys who get their jollies by hunting the endangered species get the headlines – it’s all just some pathetic power trip. Hunting for food is good though. I like the way the Bushmen go about it – they respect the life they have taken, and use it all.

      Liked by 1 person

        John W. Howell said:
        February 7, 2015 at 3:56 pm

        Humans basically suck

        Liked by 1 person

          jorobinson176 responded:
          February 7, 2015 at 5:02 pm

          Actually, reading your words and the words of everyone else here makes me realise that we don’t suck. At least not all of us – hopefully people like you – who really are cool will win the day at the end of it all. ❤

          Like

    davidprosser said:
    February 6, 2015 at 11:30 pm

    You have a lot of valid points there Jo and I wouldn’t disagreee with any of them. Given a choice of meats I’d rather have the one that had been hunted, but the thought of hunting just for fun/sport sickens me. If you can’t eat lion,don’t hunt lion. The exception is if an animal has gone rogue.Trophy heads on the wall went out with Queen Victoria…..or should have done.
    I’m sure even if we couldn’t agree on something there would be no falling out. Life is about being able to discuss differences, not throw a tantrum when someone won’t go your way.
    xxx Huge Hugs xxx

    Liked by 1 person

      jorobinson176 responded:
      February 7, 2015 at 7:14 am

      We definitely could do with mindful discussion on this one. Everyone raging and throwing toys doesn’t help anything. You’re right about the rogues. Up in Zim two years ago there was a lion cruising around Kariba eating people. A couple he just killed without eating them too. Can’t have that. I’m not into killing unless threatened – but I will if I have to.
      XXX HUGE HUGS XXX ❤

      Liked by 1 person

    marianallen said:
    February 6, 2015 at 11:31 pm

    I’m having more trouble phasing out cheese and eggs than meat. I want to phase them out, because I know dairy cattle and laying hens have hellish lives. At least I get my eggs from someone who pampers and loves her hens!

    Liked by 1 person

      jorobinson176 responded:
      February 7, 2015 at 7:19 am

      These are the hardest ones to give up. I used eggs from my own chickens, and I don’t see anything wrong with proper free range eggs. It’s when they’re fed to constantly lay that it’s not cool, or all the other things that factory farmed hens have to go though that I hate it. I could seriously hurt the people who do that, and go seriously Greenpeace over their battered bodies. Sods. The cheeses from specialist makers with small kindly treated herds are out there – expensive though – but I’m happy to munch those. I like tofu too and if I have a never ending supply of cashew nuts and honey, I’m good to go. 🙂 You eat lots of lovely veggie things though – I love your recipes.

      Liked by 1 person

        marianallen said:
        February 7, 2015 at 3:26 pm

        I usually use almond milk in cooking, but use cow milk for gravy and cream soups. I’m thinking of switching to coconut milk. BUT THEN you have the abuse of bees in almond fertilization and the degradation of ecologies in farming and harvesting coconuts…. Everything we do leaves a big, fat footprint!

        Liked by 1 person

          jorobinson176 responded:
          February 7, 2015 at 5:09 pm

          One of my biggest failings is my extreme hatred of bees. Bring on nanobots I say. Not very humane I know – but I watched those mindless little sods kill all my turkeys and chickens in the most protracted painful way. I know we need them, but they’re truly horrible little buggers – especially the African variety. Coconut milk is cool, but leaves a bit of an aftertaste – the coconut cream is totally banging for sweets though, with no aftertaste. I prefer to source goat milk from a small farm that I know treats their little horned guys kindly. Goat milk is better for you too – kills candida and such intestine destroying buggers.

          Like

    billccastengera said:
    February 7, 2015 at 2:30 am

    My neighbor recently bought a snake as a pet. It’s pretty cool. After a few weeks of owning it, he asked my kids and I if we would like to watch him feed it. My kids are 11,9, and 7. My son is the youngest. My neighbor feeds baby mice to the snake and it is apparently very entertaining to watch. I asked my kids if they wanted to watch, and I told them that it was okay if they elected not to.

    Liked by 1 person

    billccastengera said:
    February 7, 2015 at 2:36 am

    Sorry…hit post before I was ready… But anyways…my 9 year old daughter said, “It’s the circle of life, so it’s okay.” My 11 year old daughter, who has individually elected to be a vegetarian, didn’t say much but she wanted to watch. My son, who is a true boy most of the time asked, “it’s a baby?” I said, “yes. It’s a baby mouse.” He said back to me with a very sad expression, “but it was JUST born.” God love that kid. Anyway, I thought it was relevant, and a great illustration of how age desensitizes us to what can be thought of as merciless and inhumane…

    Liked by 1 person

      jorobinson176 responded:
      February 7, 2015 at 7:23 am

      Good for your son! We do have to desensitize if we’re going to conform to our society, so I hope he keeps his caring feelings. Years back I went to a snake park and was absolutely horrified to see live mice tossed in with a tank of mambas. The terror on those little guys faces was tangible. So cruel. These days any snake around here will get bopped on the head unfortunately.

      Like

    mgill0627 said:
    February 7, 2015 at 4:34 am

    I wish I could become a veagan, I really do. Instead I hide my head like an ostrich (which I don’t eat.) And pretend that meat, eggs, and dairy just spring onto the shelves of my grocery store packaged and ready to be eaten. I’m a coward and a lazy one at that. I admit it.

    I could never hunt anything though. I’d rather be killed by a lion, than hunt one; and yes, I think I know how horrible the last few minutes of my life would be. I don’t think I could look at a living animal, and end it’s life.

    So yes, I need to get up the courage and gumption to go about this veagan thing. I love animals too much to contribute to their suffering.

    Liked by 1 person

      jorobinson176 responded:
      February 7, 2015 at 7:29 am

      It’s a problem with all of us I reckon, and the society we’ve been brought up in. Free range products are more expensive, and people have to eat within their means. I was taught to shoot pretty well growing up and I’d be more than willing to shoot anyone or anything that was out to harm me, but I couldn’t kill anything otherwise.

      Going vegan after a lifetime of eating meat and animal products isn’t easy – unless the thought of it makes you sick or cross – then it’s easy. I wouldn’t dream of forcing my ways on anyone else, and I’m the cook in the family, but I try always to use meat and products from sources I know and trust. For myself – I quite like fake meat like quorn, and all sorts of other things, so I never feel deprived.

      Liked by 1 person

    Smorgasbord - Variety is the Spice of Life. said:
    February 7, 2015 at 12:30 pm

    Reblogged this on Smorgasbord – Variety is the spice of life and commented:
    I am a meat eater but I do try to buy free range if possible. I would rather eat less.. Grouse, pheasants and deer are bred and raised in the UK on estates and then hunted and eaten and it has been the tradition for hundreds of years.. provided Matthew McConaughey’s hunting philosophy on the 22,000 acre ranch is ‘clean shot’ and no suffering for an animal that is adult and had the freedom to roam for its lifetime then it is a better end than many animals within our food chain.. so do not hide under the bed Jo… thanks for the honest opinion. Hugs

    Liked by 1 person

      jorobinson176 responded:
      February 7, 2015 at 3:48 pm

      Thanks for sharing my lovely Sal! Most of the hunters I know really do go for the clean shot. I’m not sure about Matthew but generally if a guest gets a bad shot, the professional hunter quickly makes the kill. HUGS! ❤

      Like

    roweeee said:
    February 7, 2015 at 12:53 pm

    If we all just ate chocolate, the problem would be solved!

    Liked by 2 people

      jorobinson176 responded:
      February 7, 2015 at 3:49 pm

      Now that is a life I could live! 😀 I could roll down hills too as a bonus. LOL!

      Like

    Peter Wells aka Countingducks said:
    February 7, 2015 at 1:47 pm

    I agree with much of what you say. I am a meat eater and a meat lover, and bacon adds something to every dish it site with, but I am eating each mouthful of it now with increasing guilt. My middle daughter is now a fierce vegetarian, who views her father’s weakness with a tolerance which cannot totally hide her disapproval. Its a difficultly I wrestle with all the time

    Liked by 1 person

      jorobinson176 responded:
      February 7, 2015 at 3:54 pm

      That doesn’t sound very nice at all Peter. It’s a personal choice not to eat meat, and nobody should ever try and make you stop if you don’t want to, no matter how much you love each other. I actually love the taste of meat and after giving it up on the principal of the thing, I reckon I would have backslid really quickly to eating it again if I hadn’t suddenly noticed the difference in health and appearance. In the beginning vanity played a part if I’m to be brutally honest. I wouldn’t dream of trying to stop anyone else from eating it though. I remember a very militant vegan at a dinner I once went to sitting next to me and seriously ranting all night at me about the evils of meat eating, even though I wasn’t eating any of it. Kind of got my hackles up even though I agreed with her words.

      Like

    Mira Prabhu said:
    February 7, 2015 at 2:10 pm

    Reblogged this on mira prabhu and commented:
    Jo Robinson speaks her mind on the subject of Meat…now this is a big, scary, volatile subject and cuts deep into the psyche of most people…whether for or against. Whatever our personal preferences are, and whatever we may choose to do, at least we can consider what we are doing rather than just accepting status quo…thanks Jo!

    Liked by 2 people

      jorobinson176 responded:
      February 7, 2015 at 3:56 pm

      Thanks for sharing dear Mira! I’d love to know what your lovely mind makes of the whole thing. ❤

      Like

    tribalmysticstories said:
    February 7, 2015 at 2:32 pm

    I enjoy reading YOU speaking your mind. And you don’t need to hide under your bed. Great post! Thank you. 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

    merrildsmith said:
    February 7, 2015 at 2:45 pm

    My younger daughter decided to become a vegetarian when she was in third grade because she didn’t want to hurt animals. She’s grown now, and she has not eaten meat since that day, but she also does not preach to anyone. I don’t eat meat, but do sometimes cook it for my husband and for family members on holidays. I have friends who eat meat and friends who don’t. I don’t understand why anyone would unfriend you or be offended.

    Liked by 1 person

      jorobinson176 responded:
      February 7, 2015 at 4:03 pm

      Your daughter sounds like a wonderful young woman – my respect to her. And you too. I don’t enjoy handling raw meat these days, but up in Zimbabwe when times were lean and any sort of food very hard to come by, I butchered hindquarters with my kitchen knife because it just had to be done. I don’t like people who preach about not eating meat too much – at the end of it all everyone has their own belief and it’s only themselves who can change that. The unfriending was quite a while ago – it was a group of sport hunters that wanted to shoot prey birds eating an endangered species of grouse if I remember correctly – only because they wanted to shoot the endangered grouse themselves. I didn’t agree too much and got properly rained with fire.

      Liked by 1 person

    noelleg44 said:
    February 7, 2015 at 2:59 pm

    You pick a lively topic, Jo. I am a meat eater, but much less of one as I’ve gotten older. And try not to waste any of it. I actually love vegetables and can do quite weil with just that, as long as I can still have my dairy products! I am reminded of the fact that Native Americans always celebrated the life of any animal they killed for food and thanked them for their gift. We have someone who hunts on our land for deer. We have had such a great overpopulation of deer around here that they starve to death in the winter, so we agreed. He freezes the meat for his family.

    Liked by 1 person

      jorobinson176 responded:
      February 7, 2015 at 4:10 pm

      The Bushman tribe here also celebrate the life of the animal they take for food. It’s an incredible ceremony to see. It amazes me that people throw leftover meat in the bin and then go out and buy instant stock powder – it’s no work at all to make stock and it goes in the freezer for gravies and so on which are much better than instant. I reckon if everyone stopped wasting so much at the very least we’d need less animals. I think it’s awesome that someone culls the deer that will die of starvation anyway for food. I’m not so much against the eating of meat as the way farm factories produce it. A buck or any wild animal shot cleanly never knows what hit it, but a cow that goes through the worst systems out there – probably not so good for the health.

      Like

    Jane Sadek said:
    February 7, 2015 at 3:17 pm

    I hear ya! I didn’t know what my man Matthew was going through, but it is amazing how commerce can make the simplest, most natural of things completely gross. I’m guilty of eating meat, but you’d have to get off the grid and stay there to avoid this rabid commercial society and I’m not prepared to do that.

    Like

      jorobinson176 responded:
      February 7, 2015 at 4:15 pm

      It’s quite harsh what he’s going through – people wishing his kids shot and so on – really not at all cool. That’s the thing though – impossible to get off the grid. The food in the commercial society is necessary because not everyone can afford to feed their families on specially sourced organic and humanely slaughtered stuff. I would say that I was a bit off the grid up in Zimbabwe because there was nothing to buy in the shops for a good long while, so you either grew your own or ate zip. Since being back here in South Africa I’ve seriously noticed some crappy veggies though – whatever they’re doing to them to provide for the masses makes them all taste a little blech.

      Like

    Sally Ember, Ed.D. said:
    February 7, 2015 at 3:42 pm

    Well, Jo, if “meat is mean,” then vegetarians ought to realize that you’re killing millions of individual beings every day for your food while a meat eater might participate in killing one animal that feeds dozens or even hundreds of people. There is no way to eat without killing; those who claim not to kill to eat are delusional.

    Liked by 1 person

      jorobinson176 responded:
      February 7, 2015 at 4:20 pm

      Do you mean the plants or the creatures around and about Sally? It is true though – one of the lesser thought of things about farming is all the animals that die when fields are cleared for planting by burning or ploughing, and then there are the insects. There is no way to eat without killing – true – but there is a massive difference between the way animals raised for slaughter are treated during their lives, and also the way that they are killed. We’re all going to die someday, as are all animals, however, as the supposed superior species on this planet it is up to us to choose not only what we eat, but how what we eat has been treated.

      Liked by 1 person

    Sally Ember, Ed.D. said:
    February 7, 2015 at 3:42 pm

    Sorry: “Meat is meat” is the quote, above.

    Liked by 1 person

    Susan Scott said:
    February 7, 2015 at 4:17 pm

    Yup we need to be more aware and thus more conscious of what we put into our ‘cakeholes’. Give a good thought to what goes into your mouth… make a conscious choice. Whether it be fowl or fish, meat, fruit vegetable, at least know it’s history – and decide if one wants to be part of that cycle … and protest protest protest.

    The Bushmen (The Khoi – South Africa’s first indigenous people, never mind what the history books say) used to track the impala for food for the pot and when it was in his sights and the arrow poised, the Bushman and the impala would make eye contact, and the Bushman would thank the impala.

    Thank you for this post Jo.

    Liked by 1 person

      jorobinson176 responded:
      February 7, 2015 at 4:30 pm

      Thank you Susan! I was honestly expecting to be shot down with these thoughts, but seeing so many really cool compassionate and intelligent folk living their lives so mindful of hurting others has blown me away a bit. Knowing the history of the stuff we stuff into our cakeholes is key – even with the veggies – there’s a lot out there that can hurt us too.

      The Khoi really were the first indigenous people – I love that you brought that up! There aren’t many left now – after the first ships came in both the whites and the black tribes used to hunt them for sport. I’ve watched a couple of documentaries of them hunting, and it’s always a little surreal – as if the animal is saying “Alright – let’s do this.” X

      Like

    Let's CUT the Crap! said:
    February 7, 2015 at 4:29 pm

    I’m not a vegan, nor a vegetarian and I do enjoy meat–not like I used to–but I still do.
    I AM appalled, however, how animals are bred and killed for meat. Nothing humane about it. Ugh. About the canned hunting I don’t know. I do know in Russia they have a huge area where ready stock of different animals are shot for sport. Ugh again.

    Liked by 1 person

      jorobinson176 responded:
      February 7, 2015 at 4:35 pm

      It’s really true that if nothing ever ate meat the planet would be in trouble, so I’m not against eating it. I just don’t want to personally. There’s a lot of noise about the cruelty in the factory farmed meat industry though, so hopefully as time goes by the meat available for eating will be kindly procured. Trophy hunting is just gross – shooting something to hang on your wall in a situation where it’s like shooting fish in a barrel. No hunting involved at all. Small willy syndrome I’ve always thought.

      Like

    Toni Betzner said:
    February 7, 2015 at 6:47 pm

    Thank you for posting this. I am a pescatarian. When you tell people you don’t eat meat (or just fish in my case), they usually get angry. It doesn’t hurt them at all if you don’t eat meat. If anything, it helps them. If we all ate less meat, or if fewer of us ate animals, fewer would need to be killed; they would be raised and killed humanely; and they wouldn’t contain as many growth hormones, etc. I grew up eating farm-raised cows from my grandpa’s farm.. We named them, fed them, talked to them, and eventually ate them. They lived happy lives. Once he passed, I pretty much stopped eating all meat. It’s atrocious how they treat animals. I can’t in good conscious eat anything that has to live and die like that when I have alternatives like beans, soy, etc. I didn’t expect or demand my meat-eating family members to stop eating meat, but I did refuse to buy or prepare it. They learned to like fish and meat-free dishes. If they wanted meat, they could buy it. I just didn’t want to be a part of the cycle.

    Like

      jorobinson176 responded:
      February 8, 2015 at 2:39 pm

      I’ve always wondered about the anger. Some people seriously hate non meat eaters – rage sometimes isn’t too strong a word. I generally don’t talk about it and just quietly don’t eat the meat on offer when I’m out – most people don’t notice. I’m surrounded by meat eaters, and there would be serious mutiny if I tried to tell them no – also I think they could very well demolish my kitchen if let loose to cook their own in there, so I make sure that the meat I source from them was raised the way your grandpa did. For me just getting more people to eat that sort of meat is a huge step in the right direction, and hopefully one day everyone will see that it’s wrong to eat terrorised flesh. Thank you for your wonderful sentiments – the world needs more people like you.

      Liked by 1 person

        Toni Betzner said:
        February 9, 2015 at 5:05 pm

        Thanks. It’s true, It’s not just vegetarians that make a difference. People who cut back on the consumption of meat or who eat meat that is raised and slaughtered humanely also make a difference. That’s the idea behind meatless Mondays: that cutting back a little makes a big difference.

        Like

    1stpeaksteve said:
    February 7, 2015 at 6:58 pm

    I eat meat but it is not every meal. I have friends who are strict vegans and when I stay with them I eat what they give me. Maybe I am like the vulture?

    Being a person who is crazy about animals, my only wish is that they are treated better than a commodity. That goes for an animal in captivity or even how some treat their own pets.

    Liked by 1 person

      jorobinson176 responded:
      February 8, 2015 at 2:42 pm

      LOL! I saw a program once about a guy who only ate road kill, because he liked meat but couldn’t bring himself to eat the factory produced stuff. Yuck – but his principle was good. Excellent point about the captives and the pets – they often get the worst kind of abuse, and behind closed doors too, so nobody can help the poor little guys.

      Like

        1stpeaksteve said:
        February 8, 2015 at 5:22 pm

        I used to work in a operational role in a zoo. A good one. So I saw how devoted the handlers were to the animals and I also saw the medical care they received (better than most humans) and I knew the strict guidelines they followed for things people do not think about such as the cleaning of their enclosures and the areas around it. So I can see how their lives are when they are well cared for. I also saw how they reacted to things under human care. So you could plainly see that they could not survive in the wild.

        As for the road kill guy…a nice concept but yuck!!!

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    Vashti Quiroz-Vega said:
    February 7, 2015 at 10:11 pm

    Hello Jo. I see your point about hunting versus some of these meat industries. I never thought of it like that. Thanks for the food for thought. I think hunting deer, turkey, duck . . . for food is fine, done humanely. But treating animals as if they had no feelings for your pleasure, because you’re rich, bored, and done it all. Does not sit right with me.

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      jorobinson176 responded:
      February 8, 2015 at 2:45 pm

      Spot on Vashti. Animals are totally sentient in my book. They love, feel empathy and anger – probably hatred too when they’re consistently abused. They definitely feel fear. When I was growing up everyone said that animals don’t have feelings or souls. I don’t think that that’s true. I’ve come across really affectionate and clever lizards too. Hopefully we’ll find the right way one day. 🙂

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    Sherri said:
    February 10, 2015 at 5:38 pm

    Great that you can foster such a well-informed debate here Jo, on a touchy subject to say the least! I agree, as humans, we are in charge of this earth and as such, need to make sure to take care of it and all life. Sadly, we fail on so many counts. I eat meat, not every day, just ‘cos, but I am not adverse to eating it as I enjoy it. I trust that the meat I eat here in the UK is safely sourced with as much knowledge as I can get on its provenance. The thought of any animal cruetly disgusts me, however. Here, in the West Country, dairy, meat, eggs, seasonal veggies and fruit are locally sourced. I remember as a girl knowing a boy from our neighbouring village who once showed me around his parent’s farm (I was about 11). When we went inside the battery hen building I was utterly disgusted not only by the stink but by the sight of all those white chickens, crammed in together in tiny cages, their necks bald from pecking one another in their distress, having never seen the light of day. Even before it was ‘popular’ to want free range eggs (the 70s had a lot to answer for, lol), I vowed never to eat another egg from one of those kind of chickens, but I was lucky because we had our own chickens fed on home-made mash and so I grew up on those beautiful, orange, double-yokers 🙂 We had chickens when the kids were small too, but sadly not today. My dream is to move out to the country again…for more than one reason 😉 I won’t touch fois gras or veal for the same reasons. I have to believe that animlas are treated humanely for our food consumption. Maybe I’m a hyporcrite to others. But what I can’t abide are those vegans or vegetarians who go on and on about it like it’s a religion and make us meat eaters out to be the devil. One friend and I went shopping a few Christmasses ago and I happened to find a nice pair of leather gloves that I thought of giving my mum. Well, by the time we left that shop I felt as if I was responsible for every whale, seal, dolphin, tiger, lion, rhino, elephant (I could go on) slaughter in history. Needless to say, I never went shopping with her again 😮
    Hugs Jo (and sorry I haven’t been over here as much, I’ve been pushing it for a while now and constantly playing catch up and not getting much writing done. Hoping to get back on track for real this time and head over here more often, like in the old days…) Love, hugs and more love… xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ❤ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 🙂 ❤ 🙂

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